/Saturday interlocutor/ The 18th of October 2008, “KV”
While we are all thinking about prices, salaries and other little things of life, the majority of intelligent busy people are seriously concerned about appropriation of personal immortality. «Why not? - science reached such stages of its development that almost anything is possible now, - money is the only issue!» -- such statements can be frequently heard nowadays from many scientists, the Ukrainian ones in particular. So, tell me, why eternal life in this case must seem so unachievable?! (Though, clearly, not to everyone…)
Natalya KUROLENKO
«KIEVSKIE VEDOMOSTI»
The problem, as you understand, is to be solved radically – which is above gerontologists’ strength, with all due respect to them! Moreover, almost 300 theories of senescence are known today. And all of them are working in different measure. But though we do not see any immortal people around us. Ok, we will get some ten-twenty years more as an addition to our life journey. And what’s then? Sooner or later there will come a moment (the same thing as happened with those famous “Tokamaks” that were awaited to give the solution to all the energetic problems from day to day), when, certainly, the investigations could be continued, but sums of money needed for that would already be really astronomic!.. «Which is to say, if some multi-millionaire wishes to prolong his life again and again, then, actually, it will be quite possible» -- my interlocutor of today is reasoning. -- «However the expenses herewith will start growing not in geometric progression but exponentially».
And what if we come over to this problem from another side? Let a person die quietly by himself, if there is no other way according to nature laws existing today. And then suddenly in the moment of his death we are to transplant his memory to a new-born child or even to an embryo! And then its previous departed owner, kind of, automatically gets a second life!..
Yes, exactly this statement of a question is being worked out now by our Kievan scientists, and, moreover, it’s being done quite objectively.
In the middle of last century James McConnell, an American, took interest in planarians: these are flat worms inhabiting water coastlines. It was found out that they are educable – thanks to ganglions (certain accumulations of nerve cells) they can master simple defensive reflexes for some short period of time. McConnell was able to «explain» to some especially talented individuals that they had to crawl away from bright light; otherwise they would get an electric shock. And he divided them into two parts as soon as they mastered it. In one month time every half gave life to a new planarian which was reacting on light much quicker. And also take notice of the fact that both original halves were doing it; i.e. every tail remembered almost the same sort of things as a head with ganglion, - and it was handing on this knowledge to his new head!
And then another series of very similar experiments followed, and it was carried out by the USSR Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Biophysics located in Puschino near Moscow: a group of young scientists under Inna Scheiman’s guidance was trying to introduce the pieces of educated worms into the tissue of their uneducated fellows. And, as a result, it was discovered that even such tiny pieces not only survive successfully, but also pass previous knowledge to their newfound owners.
«And what if we dare even more and perform experiments not only with worms but also with rats or, even, dogs?..» – that is what my interlocutor Emir Ashshursky set himself as an inquisitive noble aim. And he dared! He started from mice, and then there were rats, hamsters and, finally, a dog…
All in all, as you can probably guess, – in the process of direct live conversation – I wanted to clarify the maximum of different technical details, directly related to this intriguing project, myself.
-- Emir Emmanuilovich, and what was the exact volume of
investigations that you performed to achieve your aim?
At first the youngest member of our scientific group Evgeniy Yarmolyuk (he is working now at the cathedra of neurosurgery of the National O.O. Bogomolets Medical University of Kiev) moved forward a proposal to transplant a memory of an adult person to another one. And he even worked out an algorithm (i.е. a detailed protocol) of such operation...
- But – I’m sorry – what exactly was to be transplanted: some part of brain?
-- Yes, certain nerve accumulations from hippocampus and temporal lobes of cortex... But when I complained in warm blood saying: «Zhenia, but rat’s immune system will probably try to reject them in every possible way!» - he just shrugged his shoulders in return: purporting that, well, then it will have to be suppressed. But it shouldn’t be that way, as you understand. The thing is that though it is anyhow tolerable in case of experiments with animals – but you can only imagine what it means for a person to suppress an immune system all of his life in order for any simple accidental cold become fatal for him?! That’s why after some short discussion we decided to shut this project down. And we realized that, apparently, we cannot do without an effective practical help on the part of embryologists. And soon at the same place, at the Medical University, I managed to find Vladimir Petrenko, a very capable and very mature for his age Candidate of Medical Science (by the way, he is a real wizard with his hands, one of those Leskov’s master hands that were shoeing a flea in due time!). Briefly speaking, Volodya literally subtracted several cells from a mouse possessing labyrinth wisdom (more accurately to say, from its subcortical stem), and then he introduced those cells into an embryo. Besides, it was exceptionally important to do it exactly during the early undifferentiated stage while it didn’t change into fetus yet (that, as is known, has almost all organs already formed). That is, in other words, all the delicacy (or, if you will, a secret) of the issue consists in the following: what kind of cells and which is the best week of development to be chosen, and also, certainly, where they are to be transplanted later, - this is, actually, our know-how!.. Although anyway, I must say, many mice died out then: we will have to put up a monument in their honour some day, I guess…
-- But does it all mean that you are truly aware of where exactly memory is situated in brain?
-- Seems to be so... But I have got a few exclusive ideas about it;
the ideas that, I guess, could be considered to be heretical by many contemporary scientists (and, probably, first of all, by physiologists). And, I am, in particular, hundred-per-cent sure: a person (the same as any living creature) has more than one all-embracing memory. And, moreover, not in the sense that is conventional to segregate within the limits of practical psychology: let us say, visual, audible, olfactory, tactile and etc., - no, I don’t mean these. But exactly a real one – the memory that, as we say, is the same anywhere. Because I have no doubt that our memory is duplicated. And when we perceive various daily information, it settles down in our several locally independent areas at the same time.
-- But why?!
-- Because the evolution of nature was being realized in a completely different way from the evolution of modern technologies. For example, this is the way a well-known English geologist of the 18th century Charles Lyle was imagining this picture. So, something is quietly living on Earth, is developing – and then suddenly, whamo!, God disliked it for some reason, - and all this is being destroyed in the turning of a hand in order to come alive all over again later, but in a bit another way this time. Yes, I do agree that if it were really so – memory would be definitely founded in one certain place, the same as our present-day computers or, even, robots have. However, such theory of catastrophism is completely belied now. As it’s not a secret for anyone that a historical way of evolution was interspersed with multiple thorns and pins, which is the reason why it had to make all it’s designer steps on top of some practices that it has already prepared itself. And since “Homo Sapiens” specie is standing on powerful, so to say, shoulders of its distant fossil forefathers then some of their mnesticosensorial structures were, supposedly, imbedded in us on every evolutionally significant stage.
- Emir Emmanuilovich, nevertheless, where is exactly, according to your opinion, human memory is hidden (or, may be even, is being continuously formed as directed by its demand)?
- First of all – in a brain stem (known as peritalamic area). And also in paleocortex, i.e. old cortex which evolutionally started to be typical of original primitive mammals. And, finally, the last one, the highest level – big hemispheres already known to you. So, I have found already three of them, as you can see; and if the upper one, suppose, is damaged or, even, destroyed – then an older layer will be functioning instead of it. Although, of course, we won’t be able to compensate completely all lost memory functions anyway… -- By the way, I don’t think it happens incidentally when sometimes a single, seemingly, foreign sound or smell is capable to cause such an abundant bunch of feelings and reminiscences coming from the deepest clandestine places of our memory so that one’s head starts to almost swirl!..
-- Oh, so you see! Here is one more proof that exactly some older memory layers are working. However, besides, I affirm strongly and emphatically: there also exists some kind of “imponderable”, the so-called mental memory. More specifically, Igor Vasilyevich Dovgal, assistant director of the capital Institute of Zoology, was trying to perform experiments with one-celled organisms pretty fundamentally and during quite a long time. And what’s then? – It appeared that even good-for-nothing microscopical amoebas remember something, i.e. they can be taught to react on some basic conditioned irritants. And infusorians that are sometimes also called “all-purpose factories in miniature” are capable to master much bigger scope of information. But, sorry: how, whereby is it possible, since in fact, they are not only lacking nerve cells, but also free from corresponding receptors!? So, apparently, this “thinly substantial” memory is exactly that epibiotic instrument for communication with external environment.
And even this is not it yet. As, in actual fact, the main curse of all our experiments was that every mammal has two thalamus and two hemispheres each. And it was essential to determine in the very beginning which of them are dominating: and what if we incidentally take a memory from recessive (“shadow”) thalamus? In this case a young mouse predeterminedly won’t feel herself the way she was feeling before, i.e. there won’t happen a self-identification of her new personality!..
-- By the way, we can frequently hear many physiologists say that all our brain is a sheer puzzle!
-- Well, not everyone says that... After all, even those experiments I’m telling you about give us a chance to crack open it, at least, partly, don’t you agree? Including, if we are to transplant a personality, then its personal memory must necessarily contain emotions. For instance, when a rat raised in isolated conditions and not dealing with a person before, creeps on your shoulder by your hand, makes herself comfortable and starts to lick you in your cheek with love, - it means that the previous personality of domestic rat woke up. So, it turns out that exactly the existential, as I call it, memory was transplanted to this rat! Because if we are to transplant the other one, of a higher evolutional level, then this animal will simply start to learn more promptly. Relating to a man, people would say: “what a wunderkind!”. But, however, this wunderkind, unfortunately, won’t have the characteristic phenomenon “déjà vu”. This means that he won’t have immortality as well! But the problem is that it’s almost impossible to study thoroughly out with mice which memory exactly you have transplanted: how will you find out if she feels nice or just learns quicker? It’s a little bit easier with rats, and even better with dogs: they must supposedly recognize familiar face (it’s thought to be familiar, of course), wag the tail, climb his new master’s chest, etc…
-- And what happens if some patient is being transplanted several personalities at once? Will he have an unhealthy double or triple dissociation of internal world as a result?..
-- You know, a human brain is, essentially, extremely plastic structure: I think that there is nothing that could be compared to it regarding its adaptability level. The same is here. So let’s imagine, for example, that a child is growing in common adequate environment, absorbing actively all the information, – and only personal memory is transplanted to him from some foreign carrier (let’s say, from a dog). It’s clear that he will really feel some kind of discomfort, especially when there will start emerging unconscientiously some reminiscences from his previous canine life layering on human faces new for him, toys, computers… But I can assure you: all this confusion won’t last long, as further on a great deal will depend on the social environment where he resides at that moment. Probably, if he stays in a booth or with a band of dogs, then there will really prevail a canine mentality introduced from a donor. Otherwise, “animal” reminiscences will cicatrize in some time by themselves, i.e. there won’t be any apparent dissociation of personality for sure…
Reference from the “Kievskie Vedomosti”:
Ashshursky Emir Emmanuilovich is a philosopher, director of Kiev Institute for Scientific Prognosis, academician of MABET.
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